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Record #16774
Name :
: Leonard BAGLEY (1899 - 1988)
  aka : Leo Fraser


Father
:
Mother
:
BMD and other details
Date of Birth
: 27 Jan 1899

Marriage (1)
:
Marriage (2)
:

Date of Death
: 27 Sep 1988
Abode (1) : Place of BirthEngland, Warwickshire, Birmingham
Abode (2) : Place of Death / BurialUnited States of America, Macomb, Harrison
Sailing Information
Date of Arrival
: 10 Jun 1903
Country
: Canada

Ship
: Siberian

Placement Family
: Wesley and Annie Fraser
Homes / Agencys
Institution (GB)
:

Agency
: Middlemore
NotesParents: Richard Bagley [1854 ? 1902] and Leah Stocks [1867 ? 1934], married November 1891 in Birmingham, Warwickshire, England.

A death registration was found for Richard Bagley: Date: Apr-May-Jun 1902; Age: 47; District: Birmingham; County: Warwickshire; Volume: 6d; Page: 32. [EDITORS NOTE: Richard Bagley died of apoplexy (stroke) at the table while eating breakfast with all of his family. The story is related on Leonard Bagley Fraser's database listing.]

William and Leonard Bagley were placed in the Middlemore home in October 1902. His brothers Richard and Walter, and his sister Annie had already been admitted on 17 July 1902.

In 1903, Leonard Bagley, 5; arrived at Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada, in a group of 124 Middlemore children.

In December 1923, Leo Fraser, 25, cook, crossed into the United States through the port of Detroit, Michigan. He declared that he resided in Taymonth, New Brunswick, Canada; that and his nearest relation was his wie, Viola, who resided in Taymonth, New Brunswick, Canada.

ON September 21, 1921, at Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada, a marriage was registered between Leo Fraser, 22, farmer, born in Taymonth, York, New Brunswick, Canada, to Wesley Fraser and Annie O'Donnell; and Viola Irene Cowperthwaite, 19, school-teacher, born in Nashwark Village, York, New Brunswick, Canada.

Leo Fraser was naturalized as a United States citizen on February 8, 1934.


Interview recorded the Summer of 1984

[At the time, the last remaining child of Richard Charles & Leah Bagley, Leonard Bagley Fraser was recorded at the Bagley Family Reunion held in Sheffield, New Brunswick, Canada]

?I?ll start at the beginning? 81 years ago last June my brothers, sister & myself landed in St. John, New Brunswick. We were originally from Birmingham, England. My father died sometime before that, I don?t recall how long. It wasn?t too long. And, of course, my mother, left with no immediate means of support.

Our government, at that time, was big-hearted enough to put us in home and eventually ship us over to Canada to get rid of us. So, we went to a home called Middlemore Home. I don?t recall a lot at that time. I was 4 ? years old. But, I don?t recall how long we were in the home.

The next recollection I have is apparently at the back of a dress.

I remember when father died. We were setting at a table eating breakfast, I think it was breakfast. I had the chair beside him. He went to lift his knife or his fork up to his mouth, and he fell forward on his face and died. They called it apoplexy at the time. Now days, it would be called a stroke.

[Question from Leonard?s wife Grace: Do you remember what kind of a house you lived in?]

I remember the layout. In England in those days, they had an archway; a stone archway going off over the street into a courtyard; a tiled courtyard; a paved courtyard. You went through this archway into the courtyard and it was spread out in a rectangle. And there were houses, of course, all the way ?round.

And?we lived, as I recall it, on the further left hand corner, upstairs, second flight. Now, that?s my recollection as far as I can?now? from there we go to?[interruption to adjust microphones] Where did we leave off?

[Grace: You were coming over on a ship. Now what was the name of your ship?]

H.M.S. Liberia ... [Words that follow are unintelligible] ... didn?t care if we lived or died. It was 1903 ... 14 days coming over?

After we landed in St. John [New Brunswick] I guess most of us on the boat were spoken for? as we were sent here more or less as indentured servants, anyway?But?ah?everybody was placed but me. Course I was of not use to anybody. I was only 3 ? to 4 ? years old. The rub was?I was the tag end and sent with a companion.

And now, as I go on and I?ll say Mother and Father, which I mean my adopted Mother and Father.

There was a Mrs. Richards who had come as a companion?ah?what we would call Social Service now, I suppose. She was a friend of Mother?s. She met her on the street one day and she said, ?Annie, I have one little boy I?d like for you to [keep?see].? So, we were down at the old [Liberty] Hotel and Mother came in and looked me over. And Mrs. Richards said, ?Would you like to have him?? Mother said, ?Oh, I don?t know. I?d have to ask Wes, to keep him.? So?

Anyway, they came in? Mother and Dad came in a little while later in the afternoon and the old man said, ?No, I don?t think I want to try. So, they started for home, which was about 20 miles up the Nashwauk. They came in that morning with a load of [coal...cord wood]. Anyway, they started for home and Dad said, half way across the Fredericton Bridge? he says, ?I wonder what will become of that little boy.? Mother said, ?Doubt I know it.? They turned right around on the bridge and drove back. And they told Mrs. [?] that they would take me there, on one condition, that I become adopted. So, it ended up I was adopted and given their name. And [had it been] differently?

We didn?t have? we were poor farmers and didn?t have much money. Most of our doing? trade. We?d have to take a half a cow or hog or something in to get some flour or sugar or coffee or something. As I said before I went to school?a one-room country school. I think when I first started out; there were 10-12 other children. I know when I finished there I was one of six, that were left.

[Grace: Where abouts did you live?]

Up on Nashwauk.

[Grace: And your brothers? Where? Fredericton?]

Charles was ill so he was sent up river somewhere. Walter was over here in Oromocto. Dorothy went over to French Lake. And Will came down here to Sheffield [at Parrish Court #1]. So, I didn?t see much of them until I grew up. Because communication and transportation ... wasn?t like it is now. I did keep in touch with Charles. He was the oldest so I could kind of?he?d keep hold of me.

But, I came down once?Charles brought me down once, down here to see Will?stayed over night?I get on the train at 10:30 in the morning in [Words that follow are unintelligible]. Where I lived. Had to come into Fredericton. Stayed there overnight to catch the boat for down here?the Victoria or whatever was running at that time. Come down here and then to Charles to stay overnight. A three-day journey which you do now in 60 minutes almost. I digress?where?d I leave off?

[Grace: About your brother Charles.]

Anyway, Charles was farmed out somewhere up river, above Fredericton, and he hurt his leg. It got infected. And they thought they were going to have to amputate it. So, they brought him into the hospital. At that time there was a Mrs. [McCarroll] who was head nurse and she took some kind of fancy to Charles. Since the people he?d lived with didn?t care about getting him back. Mrs. [McCarroll] said, ?Why don?t you let him stay here with me?? That?s how he lived with Mrs. [McCarroll] right near the hospital. He lived there. He grew up there. Went to technical school. He worked in the [Words that follow are unintelligible] for a little while. Then he went in the service and was a medic. He was stationed in Halifax at the time of the explosion. [A ship out in the harbor blew up. Schools were let out. Businesses closed.]

Charlie married Bess Shaw. They had children. Dick, Lee, then the two?three girls?Murial and Millicent and Betty. Harry was the youngest. Harry was?is the baby. They?re all here. [Refers to Family Reunion.]

Wally again, as I say, came to Oromocto. He worked around somebody who had a livery stable at that time. I don?t know where.

[Grace: Attempting to get Leonard back on track asked?What did Charles do? Did he stay in Canada or go to the states? Were his children born in CA?]

Yes. But, he was back and forth a great deal. I don?t recall exactly. [Not certain if Leonard is speaking about Charles or Walter as he continues for a bit.] So?of course, he went overseas at the time. Eventually coughed his lungs out after coming home. At the VA hospital in Ontario. He got shot up and gassed.

And then Walter landed over here in Oromocto and wound up with someone with a livery stable. And I guess he didn?t have a very good life. First thing I heard was that he ran away. To the state Maine and fell in with somebody over there with a livery stable and work with horses. Always around horses. I don?t know how long he stayed there or where he went from there. The next thing I knew he was in the state of Washington in the Calvary, the American Calvary. No wait a minute. I take that back. He worked as an extra for a while in Hollywood doing pictures.

I don?t know how long that was. He was in Birth of a Nation [1915].

[Grace: He was an extra? Oh, I saw those pictures!]

So? he went overseas with the Calvary, the U.S. Calvary. Just a month to the day, that they left New York he was back. The first day out he was showered with [Words that follow are unintelligible]. The rest of them were all killed. And he was disabled, in a wheelchair, blind, too. [Words that follow are unintelligible]

[Grace: When did Walter marry? When he was in the States?]

Yeah. He married Ila Van Orton. They had one son. Miles. [Words that follow are unintelligible]

He had a marvelous memory. He loved to play cards. I remember one night we were playing poker. Five or six of us. He was blind at the time. And we were playing stud poker. All he wanted to know was who had sat where. Grace sat there, and on. [Someone would tell him what was in his hand. Each player would say what they were playing.] Anyway, they dealt the cards out. Grace got the ace of diamonds. [Words that follow are unintelligible] That one night in particular it cam to a show down. We were all arguing. He said, ?What the hell are all you people arguing about? I got the best hand of all of you!? And he was right!

[Grace interrupts with reminiscing bits about her impressions of Walt.]

He sold more poppies [VA poppies] then anybody else. And he did that year after year. He did that all over the phone.


When it comes to my sister Dorothy [Annie Dorothy], I don?t remember much about her. I never saw her after we were broken up, until Walt?s funeral. [1903-1946] I take that back. About 1936, I guess it was along about there, Walt, Charlie and I go down there ... to stay a couple of days. Then I didn?t see her again until after Walt?s funeral.

[Grace questioning.]

She married a fellow, name of Sydney Edwards, and they lived in Toronto. He was a carpenter by trade and considerably older than she was. And that?s all I know about her to the best of my knowledge. And she passed away about 23-24 years. [1959-1960]

And then we come to Will.

Will was born in, oh let me see?1896.

He came down here to a farm owned by a family named Barker. He lived here with them. The way I understand it he had a pretty rough road. He wasn?t abused. But, he was expected to do a man?s work there on the farm. [Will would have been 7 when he arrived in Canada.] Anyhow? when the war broke out? the First World War broke out the 4th of August 1913. And I guess he wanted to [Words that follow are unintelligible] so he could [Words that follow are unintelligible].

He never carried a gun all the time he was in the service. He joined the medical corps as a stretcher bearer. He went all through the war?was shot up a couple of times. He went into th [Words that follow are unintelligible] and back. Wound up being gassed and in hospital several times. [The gas in the trenches burned his lungs. While recuperating in French hospital he was taught bead weaving as therapy. We have a blue glass seed-bead necklace with a gold seed-bead fleur de lee that Will made while in hospital.]

By the time Will and the boys came home from France they really should have gotten a full disability pension at the time. Charles told him at the time, ?Don?t take off the uniform ?til you get a pension.?

They [Will and wife Florence] asked and questioned, filled out papers and tried to find out. They fought for years. His wife, Florence, fought for years. And when they finally got the pension it was $16.00 a month. And that?s what they lived on, that and chickens and fishing salmon.

He married Florence Moore from Sheffield. They had Dick, Ken, Jean, Irene, Donna and several years later, Darryl came along. He was the omega.

This is the original house they used to live in. [The sight of the Family Reunion, then owned by Kenneth Bagley, had been the home of Florence?s parents William & Martha Moore.] And Will lived just down the road here.

Going back to the beginning? I forgot to mention I had another sister. She was born after we came over here. [Leah was pregnant when her five children were sent to Canada from the Middlemore Home.] Her name was Jessica. And I don?t recall just how long after we came here?she died. She was probably was one or two years old. I don?t know when or how she died, all that.

And mother [Leah] remarried, again. A man named Stokes.

I don?t recall. As I?ve said before, our communication with her wasn?t very good; it was probably a couple of years before I heard anything, maybe longer. But, anyhow, as I said, she got married again for economic reasons. And they had one son. My half-brother Tom. Tommy Stokes.

And I should go back to the very beginning which I should have done in the first place.

As I get the history of things?my father, our father [Richard Charles] was from a well-to-do family. And my mother was a dancer, a singer and dancer on the stage. A ?Hoofer? we call ?em now days. Anyway, in those days in England, any woman connected to the stage wasn?t thought of too well. So, his family just threw him out bodily. No [Words that follow are unintelligible] and wouldn?t have anything to do with him or them. I don?t know what my Dad?s education was but, anyway, I think I mentioned before, he always loved horses. As I understand his family had horses in stables there. [Birmingham, England area it is presumed] He found a job as a coachman.

My oldest brother, Charles, his job was?early every morning?was to make sure to polish the high boots [that father wore]. High polish those boots so they were ready in the morning. [Leonard begins to lose his train of thought.]

[Beth Bagley-Stanton asks, ?What about yourself??]

Oh, am I in this? [Leonard laughs.]

Well, they called me Leonard Bagley. L-e-o-n-a-r-d. That?s where they [adoptive parents Wesley and Annie Fraser] got the Leo. They didn?t like Leonard but they turned it into Leo. That?s on my adoption papers.

So, I got pulled out of the docks and I grew up. I didn?t have a very good childhood. It was? I was always different from the other kids in my neighborhood. And some of the old folks, too had vile prejudice. I was kicked around quite a bit?had some black eyes, too. I think that?s one of the reasons, a lot of the reason, I never liked to be away from home. I never liked to wander around too much, especially when I was younger.

But, as it was I grew up. Anyhow, I went to normal school. [Normal school was higher education, usually in preparation for becoming a teacher.] By some reason or other I had a real good knowledge in my head. I made the grade anyway. But, I never taught.

The simple reason?if you?re a school teacher you must have an A1 education at that time yet stave to death on what they could [pay?]. So I never cared too much for it anyway as far as that goes. When I got done I wanted to get out and do something with my hands?

So, I took my notice [?] and I worked on [Words that follow are unintelligible]. I worked on the [WPW?]. I worked on the roads leading west. I slept on the ground. And I came to America and a school teacher caught my eye?.

And it?s one of those things. We got married the next year.

[Grace asks, ?What was her name??]

Viola [Crumpet?] Then there were the kids.

[Grace asks, ?How many did you have??]

8. Gladys, Viola, Joyce, Richard? who died young, Bob?Robert, Walter?who died and there was Kaye Don and Lawrence.

TAPE #3 This tape picks up where Tape # 1, side 2 leaves off?

Leo was listing the names of his children?Gladys, Viola, Joyce, Richard [who died young], Bob?Robert, Walter [who died], Kaye Don, Charles....

Leonard: They?re all married now. That?s it for now.

Grace: How then you have how many grandchildren?

Leonard: 19 and 23 great grandchildren.

Grace: And you lost your wife?what year?

Leonard: ?42. Viola died in ?42. And for some reason I ran into you?in??44.

Grace: And we?ve been going strong ever since. We?ve been married 39?no, 40 years. We met [words that follow are intelligible] and married in 1944.

Leonard: On December 14, am I right?

Grace: That?s right!

Leonard: I don?t dare forget! [He says laughing.]

Beth: Not with her sitting behind you like that. No. [Laughing]

Leonard: And that?s the story of my life as far as I know. Now you can ask me questions.

Jean [Bagley] Levesque: Do you remember when you last visited here in Maugerville?

Leonard: Yes! I remember it quite well. It was 10 years ago.

Jean [Bagley] Levesque: You?ve seen quite a few changes then?in the last few years.

Grace: At the time we came back ah?should I tell them how we got back here? That Dick had had a stroke?

Leonard: Oh, yeah. Dick had had a stroke. And [words that follow are intelligible] and he came to stay with us for a while. And his mother wanted him to see him come up for a while. [words that follow are intelligible?however Florence Bagley traveled to Mt. Clemens, Michigan to the home where Leonard and Grace lived to see her son Richard Henry.] So anyhow?when she got ready to come back. I said to Grace, ?I believe I?ll go back, too.? It had been 15-16 years since I?d been back. Well, by gosh, I?m so glad we came back to call?[words that follow are intelligible?there is a discussion of Grace somehow getting hurt and winding up in the hospital in New Brunswick. And having to follow up on doctor?s care and therapy after returning to Michigan.]

Grace: Anyway?that?s the story of our lives.

[After a pause in conversation Grace begins again.]

Grace: Well, tell them how old you are and the good lord willing?[words that follow are intelligible ]don?t you know.

Leonard: We?ve already lived a long life.

Grace: Yes, you did dear. But, your still young compared to some of these people who are getting married at 92 and 93 year old!

Leonard: I?ll never do it! [Laughs]

Harry Bagley: Would you get married again?

Leonard: I?d have to? [words that follow are intelligible] I?d think? [words that follow are intelligible] [Laughs]

Grace: Yeah, if the good lord?s willing to let him live?he?ll be 86 years old in 1985. And he?s had good health, really?not real bad health until about 5 years ago?But he?s able to get around. Before we came out we even checked with the doctor. And the doctor said there was no reason to restrict him. He?s going to have to let him go. He?s pretty good. Sometimes he growls about his medication.

Beth: Was anyone ever in touch with this Tom, Tommy Stokes?

Leonard: Not to my knowledge. I think that maybe Dick and maybe Charles had been when they were in the service [words that follow are intelligible] I don?t know.

Beth: Now, you said you got the message about Jessica?how would that?I know technically how it [the news] would have come over here on a boat. But, would your mother [natural mother Leah Bagley] have passed that information on? How?

Leonard: I don?t know how the message got over here. But, I know that mother [adoptive mother Annie Fraser] talked with someone? and father came home from town?or late one evening?and mother told me that Jessica died. He carried the message apparently [words that follow are intelligible]?

Beth: [I ask], because I?m wondering if your mother?Leah?would have been aware of where you children had been?sent to?

Leonard: I question that very much?I don?t think so.

Grace: Well, some way or another your step?your foster mother must have known that Jessica was your sister.

Leonard: Well whoever [words that follow are intelligible]

Grace: I presume the woman from the?the people from England [from the Middlemore Home]?whoever sent them [the children] on the boat, kept in touch with them [family back in Birmingham]?

Beth: Now, when you were back in England?I know you were very very young?but do you remember anything about any family visiting? Or relatives? Any names?that way?

Leonard: No, I don?t.

Beth: No?

Jean [Bagley] Levesque: Did anyone ever tell you the name of the boat that you came over on?

Leonard: H.M.S. Liberia?an old leaky tub?they commandeered for [words that follow are intelligible].

Beth: How many people were aboard?would you say?

Leonard: God, I don?t know?[a horrible home?] for them. I would say 45-50 [children? words that follow are intelligible]. I do remember?they had 2 women that?I don?t know if you?d call them a nurse or not but?along they came.

Beth: Now, the home [Middlemore Home] that you had stayed in before you were shipped out? Do you remember anything about that? What the name of it was? Was it in Birmingham?

Leonard: Yeah, the Middlemore Home.

Beth: Middlemore Home.

Leonard: And these two women that were supposed to supervise us. One was a red-head. She was the most miserable [person] alive. I know I despised her.

And then they had an old black-haired gal. I can remember her picking me up, tossing me, in fact, and her arms whirling me around. I thought she was wonderful! [He finishes this statement with a tearful voice.] ?But, my memory stinks?remembering details.

Beth: Oh, I think you?re doing terrific!

Leonard: Wait a minute! By gosh, I do remember one more thing! On our way over somebody sighted a whale! There was a lot of excitement. [words that follow are intelligible] the rooms and everywhere to get the kids up on the deck to see that whale. I remember him coming right along side where I was. [Everyone listening was awed at the thought of a whale next to the ship. Silence followed.]

Beth: Was it a rough voyage or did you have pretty smooth sailing? You say it [the ship] was so leaky, you know?were there any storms while you were at sea?

Leonard: No, not bad at all.

Beth: You said it was two weeks?14 days?

Leonard: [words that follow are intelligible]? at the time [words that follow are intelligible]? a nickel [words that follow are intelligible]? with quite a few people [on board].

Grace: What year was it?

Leonard: It was 1903?.81 years ago.

Ken Bagley: Okay, we?ll have to cut this off now. [The food for the picnic was ready and more people were arriving.]

Leonard: That?s the story of my life.

Beth: That?s wonderful!

[words that follow are intelligible]

Grace: Did you tell them what year you went to the States? How many? [words that follow are intelligible]

Beth: He had mentioned?when he?d gone to the States?not the [words that follow are intelligible] I missed one of your kids? names, Leo. I have Gladys, Viola, Joyce, Richard, Robert, Walter and Kaye. Who am I missing.

Leonard: Larry?Lawrence, the baby.

Grace: There we are!


Transcript #2

Leonard: Well, you see when we came over here, in those days you might call us indentured servants, because that?s all we were. We?d go wherever anyone would take us and the [contract agreement?] was the only reason for us to be sent to school and kept clothed. And some of the them [adults who took in the Middlemore Home children] lived up to the contract and a lot of them didn?t.

Millicent [Bagley]: Yeah, some of them [Middlemore Children] had a miserable life. In that book [Fredericton Memories by Ted Jones] there are some sad stories.

Grace Fraser: And of course, when they came over Leo was only 4 years old. He wasn?t big enough to be farmed out. And nobody wanted him. This is how he got adopted. And that?s how he got his name changed from Bagley to Fraser.

Leonard: So, I was sent out to Fredericton. And there was a woman by the name of?Mrs. Richards. She had some charge of the whole thing. And some how or other she was a friend of mother?s. And when I say mother I mean my adoptive mother. She met her on the street this day and she said, ?Annie, I?ve got a little boy I?d like you to see. I?m in the [?] Hotel. [Waverley- On tape #1 Leo might have said Liberty Hotel. Not sure which was the actual name of the Hotel where they were staying.] Well, anyway? mother came and saw me. And she said, ?Well, I can?t make any decision until I talk to Wes. That?s my adoptive father. Well, it was quite late in the afternoon. He came in, gave me a turn, looked me over. He was very non-committal, [words that follow are intelligible], very stern. So, he said, ?No.?

So, they had been in that day bringing produce [On tape #1 it was difficult to make out what Leo was saying the Frasers brought into town. ?Produce? is very clearly spoken on this tape.] to the market in the [words that follow are intelligible wagon. So, they were driving over the Bridge that night right along [words that follow are intelligible] and they were pr?t-near crossed the bridge when he said, ?I wonder what?s gonna become of that little boy.? And mother said, ?Doubt I know.? They turned right around in the middle of the bridge and drove back. Picked me up.

Millicent [Bagley]: They were good to you, were they?

Leonard: So far as I?m concerned that?s probably the best thing that ever happened to me?I got out of there.

Millicent [Bagley]: Yeah, that?s true.

Leonard: Your dad?[Leonard?s eldest brother Richard Charles is Millicent?s father]?had a hard life.

Millicent [Bagley]: He did? He lived with somebody in Fredericton didn?t he? At a hospital?or something? Some lady at the hospital?

Leonard: Well, what happened there?he hurt his leg on the farm somehow or other and?the leg became ulcerated. They thought they were going to have to amputate. So they took him into the hospital. And as I say, most didn?t give a damn if we lived or died, you know. So anyway, Mrs. McCall [On Tape #1 Leo sounded like he pronounced the name McCarroll. Do not know which it may have been.] was at the hospital. She asked if she could take care of Charlie. So they took her up on it to get rid of him. They thought he was going to lose his leg anyway. So, he came to live with Mrs. McCall at the hospital. I think that is where he got his love of medical
[words that follow are intelligible].

Millicent [Bagley]: Well, you know, it?s funny. He never talked about it at the time. Dad never said a word about anything. He never talked bad. We never heard any of this ?til we were grown up and married, I guess? We knew he came over young and all tht but didn?t know the story of it. Just the date my Dad was born and things like that?his mother?s name?
[Turning to address Beth Bagley-Stanton] We noticed in your book you have the name of Lovett.
Beth Bagley-Stanton: Yes. Leo just said? he told us it was Leah Lovett.
Jean [Bagley] Levesque: Yes, he told you it was that.

Beth Bagley-Stanton: Now see?I?ve had three different names. I?ve had Janet Lovett. That was the name Kaye Don Fraser came up with. I?ve had Leah Webb and Leah Barrett. And all three of them?when I?ve gone to the Mormon Stake near my house to do research of course?none of the names checked out. So, I?ve got to keep digging so I can find a name, a date, or a ship record or?

Millicent [Bagley]: Well, we?ve got it on his [Her father Richard Charles Bagley?s] birth certificate. Leah Luckett?Luckett?there?s another name for you!

Beth Bagley-Stanton: Luckett?

Millicent [Bagley]: It?s right there on the birth certificate.

Harry Bagley: Yes it is. Luckett. L-u-c-k-e-t-t.

Beth Bagley-Stanton: L-u-c-k-e-t-t [Writing it down] And she was Scottish

Millicent [Bagley]: I don?t know dear, if she was Scottish or what.

Leonard: The way I understand it she was Scottish.

Millicent [Bagley]: That?s about all we know. You know?what it has on the Birth Certificate. For father?s occupation? it says cab driver. And Aunt Florie said that after his father wouldn?t have anything more to do with them all [Richard Charles Bagley in Birmingham, England] that he was a cab driver.

Harry Bagley: It says right here on the Birth Certificate?cab driver.

Beth Bagley-Stanton: Ah?yes.

Millicent [Bagley]: [Asking Leo] Did his?did your father have money? Ah?I don?t mean your father?your father?s father?
Harry Bagley: Your grandfather.

Millicent [Bagley]: Your grandfather. The one that?

Harry Bagley: Do you know your grandfather?s name?

Leonard: No. I don?t.

Millicent [Bagley]: Now, we heard he had money and?

Leonard: No, there wasn?t that I um?

Beth Bagley-Stanton: I know, Gramma Florie always told me that there had been a name change. So, I was trying to figure out what it?

Harry Bagley: See, this is the question I asked?was?what was his father?s actual name? Because when we researched it in London [England] we went looking through [the files] and we went back?assuming his age when he died? and then we dropped back and we allowed twenty years each way. Forward and backward. Now, according to Muriel, she had a date of how old he was when he died. But, we could find no Richard Charles Bagley. We found lots of Richard Bagleys. And there?s lots of different spellings of Bagley, too. [words that follow are intelligible] We could find nothing.

Leonard: Maybe, the reason for that was that after WWI ?[words that follow are intelligible] Birmingham took terrific bombing.

Harry Bagley: Yes, but you see that the records in London would be accurate, because they go right back for years and years?

Beth Bagley-Stanton: Centuries?

Harry Bagley: And every birth, marriage?and this is one of the things that we didn?t get a chance to do?is to get into the marriage?where they have the records for marriage because what I wanted to do was to see if I could find their?where they keep the marriage certificates to see exactly what the names were. But, that might not have given us anything again either. It?s difficult to say.

Leonard: So, you don?t think some of our records have been destroyed?
Harry Bagley: Oh, no! No, no?because all those records would be kept in London. And all those records are kept in vaults.

Beth Bagley-Stanton: Now, what was the name of the place that you went to in London?

Harry Bagley: Somerset?Somerset House.

Millicent [Bagley]: And they had Dad?s birth certificate. It [Here I assume she is speaking of the copy that her father, Richard Charles, had had in his possession.] had all been ripped up in little pieces and you could barely make it out. So they [Somerset House] could make us a new one with all the information that you could make out?as far as his occupation?his wife?s name?and you know?

Beth Bagley-Stanton: How was Leah spelled?

Millicent [Bagley]: L-e-a-h

Beth Bagley-Stanton: That?s the one thing that remains the same?rings true?[words that follow are intelligible]
Millicent [Bagley]: [words that follow are intelligible]
I think that is why they named Donna?Donna Leah.

Beth Bagley-Stanton: And yet, I had Donna Louisa. We were talking about that last night. So, I?ve got that to change ?so that?s why I thought I might as well haul this [genealogy notebook] along and change it while I?m here.

[words that follow are intelligible as more people arrive and the conversations drown out the genealogical talk. Chatter, introductions, gather?]
Beth Bagley-Stanton: The more confused I get? the more organized I get?okay?now?was Jessica?

Grace Fraser: The baby!

Beth Bagley-Stanton: Okay?after you there was a little girl?
Leonard: Yeah.

Beth Bagley-Stanton: What year would she have been born?
Leonard: Oh?I?d say she was born?probably about 1903.
Beth Bagley-Stanton: Now, I know after your Dad died? of consumption, right?

Leonard: No, he died of stroke.

Beth Bagley-Stanton: [writing notes] Died of stroke?okay?

Leonard: Apoplexy, they called it in those days. [Interruption?[words that follow are intelligible]

Beth Bagley-Stanton: Now, how soon after that did your mother go to the Middlemore Home? Leah was trying to raise the kids on her own, right?

Leonard: Right? I think Leah?Jessica died in about ?03 or ?04. [Richard Charles, Walter Ambrose and Annie Dorothy entered the Middlemore Home on July 17, 1902. William Henry and Leonard entered the Middlemore Home in October 1902. They were all shipped to Canada in 1903. Was Leah pregnant with Jessica when her husband died suddenly on April 29, 1902? ]

Beth Bagley-Stanton: So Jessica was about a year old? What happened?

Leonard: I never heard. I don?t know. The folks came home on night?they went into town?into Fredericton?and they came home that night and they told me Jessica died. They thought she died?from what cause?I don?t know.

But, the funny thing about it was?and I told this story only 2 or 3 times?as I say?they went into town?I was alone?I was playing around in the afternoon, when all of sudden it cam to me?Jessica?came to me in a flash. So when mother cam home that night and told me?told me that Jessica died. I said I knew it. She said, ?How?d you know?? I just knew it. That?s all there was to it.

Beth Bagley-Stanton: Now, was Jessica than a Fraser?no, sorry?she was a Bagley.

Grace Fraser: Leah was pregnant when she lost her husband.

Beth Bagley-Stanton: Now, do you remember your Mom & Dad? Your natural parents?

Leonard: Vaguely?very vaguely. As I said before, I remember when Dad died. I was along side him in a high chair?a wooden high chair. He went to put his knife or fork to his mouth and fell forward on the table. That?s all I remember. I can remember where I lived?

Beth: Now this was in Birmingham?

Leonard: Yeah. I can picture in my mind an archway off the street. You went in through the archway. I can remember a court?cobblestone court. And there were houses all way around you know?like a beehive. We lived in the farther left corner?up stairs?the second flight.

Beth Bagley-Stanton: How many rooms were there? Do you remember that?

Leonard: I don?t have any idea. I can only remember the kitchen and we were eating.

Grace: Would you think that household would still be there? The same place?

Leonard: No! I know the place would be gone. I know the place was bombed to hell in the war?and all gone to hell.

Beth Bagley-Stanton: You don?t know what street it was or anything?

Leonard: No. I don?t.

Grace: Birmingham was bombed during the war?

Beth Bagley-Stanton: Yes! Terribly!

Leonard: I got my Birth Certificate at home. But, it doesn?t give any other address other than Birmingham.

Beth Bagley-Stanton: Were you born at home?or in the hospital?

Leonard: Home. Very few people in our class were born in the hospital in those days.

Grace: This all started for the simple reason that the Bagleys were people of money. They had money. And when Uncle Leo?s Dad married, he married a woman that he loved. But, they wouldn?t accept her into their society. ... 
ContributorsCreated : 2012-09-19 16:53:04 / From original database

Last Updated : 2012-10-25 23:42:08 /

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Surnames starting with:   A  B  C  D  E  F  G  H  I  J  K  L  M  N  O  P  Q  R  S  T  U  V  W  X  Y  Z  7 Entries        
IDNameDOBPlace of birthArrivals & ShipsDest.AgencyFamily links
16771 BAGLEY, Annie Dorothy1894ENG, WAR, Birmingham Jun 1903 : Siberian CAN Middlemore  
10905 BAGLEY, John 1901ENG,     Apr 1912 : Corinthian CAN Barnardos  
16774 BAGLEY, Leonard 1899ENG, WAR, Birmingham Jun 1903 : Siberian CAN Middlemore  
16772 BAGLEY, Richard Charles1889ENG, WAR, Birmingham Jun 1903 : Siberian CAN Middlemore  
6862 BAGLEY, Walter 1889ENG,     Apr 1900 : Cambroman CAN Barnardos  
16773 BAGLEY, Walter Ambrose1892ENG, WAR, Birmingham Jun 1903 : Siberian CAN Middlemore  
16770 BAGLEY, William Henry1896ENG, WAR, Birmingham Jun 1903 : Siberian CAN Middlemore